When the Husband Is Not a Devotee
The views expressed in this section are the opinions of the individual authors and do not necessarily represent the views of ISKCON News, ISKCON Communications or ISKCON.
We were asked a question: what if the wife is a devotee of Lord Krishna and her husband is a non- devotee (karmi)? If one partner is a devotee and the other one is not (yet), it is not a problem if the devotee wife knows what her duty is towards Krishna in this situation. In my answer that follows we assume that the husband is a normal man and not a homicidal maniac or in some other way having serious clinical mental problems.
All women have just one duty or dharma in this world--- to serve her husband. When we say all women, then it means all women. It is called stri-dharma (SB 7.11.25-29). For the wife, vivaha is her second birth (dvi-ja) her initiation into Vedic culture. And moving into husband’s house is not just moving into the house, it means she goes to live in the asrama. Who’s asrama? The ashrama of her husband. If husband is qualified, it is grhastha ashrama. If not, it is a grhamedhi life. But it does not matter if husband is qualified or not according to our standard or expectations. He is still the representative of Krishna. Who sent us this husband? Krishna sent him. The wife can still make spiritual progress even if the husband is not a devotee.
So what is it that Krishna wants from me, you, and other jiva’s in this female body? As devotees we want to please Krishna. Krishna says that for a brahmacari, guru is His representative; for child, mother is the representative ofKrishna, and for wife, her husband is representative of Krishna. As a brahmacari lights the fire for sacrifice in the ashrama of his guru, so does the wife when she lights fire in the kitchen to cook for her husband. That is her sacrifice. And Krishna accepts it equally. (This is explained in Manu Samhita.)
The point is that wife makes spiritual progress if she performs her prescribed duty which is – serving her husband [SB 7.11.25-29]. She performs her duty for Krishna for His pleasure.
“Perform your prescribed duty, for doing so is better than not working. One cannot even maintain one's physical body without work. Work done as a sacrifice for Visnu has to be performed, otherwise work causes bondage in this material world. Therefore, O son of Kunti, perform your prescribed duties for His satisfaction, and in that way you will always remain free from bondage.” [BG 3.8-9]
She may not love to serve husband who is not a devotee, but she serves him as her duty to please Krishna (BG 5.29). Wife should not be rude, critical or fight with husband as this would be even greater sin than any fault he may possess. His faults should be dealt with by his superiors or equals not by his subordinate (wife). Although he may not be spiritually qualified she should be respectful, in the same way as she is respectful to her guru. Guru may criticize, but disciple cannot be rude and disrespectful. So why should the wife be angry and rude with her husband? Hiranyakasipu abused his own son Prahlad, but Prahlad was never disrespectful to him. He always approached his father with folded palms saying: “O greatest of all demons.” Prahlad was never rude. Although his father literally wanted to kill his own son Prahlad was always respectful. Nrsimhadeva corrected his father.
For a wife service to the husband is her sacrifice (BG 3.14-15); it’s not that she should sacrifice a goat in the temple. She should sacrifice her false ego, mind, body in the service of her husband, who is direct representative of Sri Krishna. And she makes spiritual advancement. Like we have a murti of Krishna in some material form—He may be carved and made with very delicate and attractive features, or He may be painted or carved not really perfect, but still Krishna is present in those statue forms/murtis and we offer our service to Him. Even imperfectly carved murti is still Krishna’s manifestation in this world. So is the husband for wife; perfect, imperfect, good, bad, devotee, or non-devotee.
If husband wants her to serve him meat, alcohol, sex, etc, she should serve him. She will not get any reaction for doing that (BG 18.47), because she is doing her dharma (stri dharma); she is following her husband’s instructions, which means she is following her duty. So she will not get any reaction, but her husband will get reaction if he demands something that is not according to dharma. Thoughwife gets no karma it may affect her consciousness, for example she would get no karma for cooking meat but she may feel disgusted.
The point is that everyone should follow their dharma or prescribed duty. Krishna arranged this world in such a way so that everyone is able to make spiritual advancement by following his or her prescribed duty (BG 18.46).
For women it is simple. Just follow what your husband says. So however we turn, if wife is able to adjust and follow her husband she makes advancement. If she disobeys her husband, she degrades herself, slowly and surely. Krishna always sends for us a husband who is best for us to practice for our relationship with Krishna. Remember we can not get into the spiritual world until we develop the service attitude.
Now we have opportunity to practice serving Krishna by serving His representative that He sent to us and whom we got by our own karma. If we are dealing on platform of justice and morality and think “if my husband is not good then I will not serve him,” then we are not going to like Krishna. How will we tolerate that Krishna said He is going to be with me but is with another gopi instead? Is that justice? No it is not.
“I know no one but Krishna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me broken hearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord, unconditionally.”
So there is so much we have to practice. (Of course as I said at the beginning that we assume that we are dealing with normal men not perverts or criminals. Nor should men take advantage of this because by so doing they would reap serious bad karma.)
If husband is not a devotee, we have to do our duties, cooking (what he wants), offer to Krishna, cleaning, taking care of all family members etc. Speaking sweetly and be respectful. Have faith in Krishna that by serving your husband nicely, He will be happy with you and if He wants He will change the heart of your husband. And even if he doesn’t want to become devotee, if he is pleased with service of his wife, he will not be able to make obstacles in her devotional life. He will have respect for such a wife.
We have the example of Pisima Mataji, HDG Srila Prabhupada’s sister. She was not only Srila Prabhupada’s sister, but his God-sister as well. Just try to imagine her situation; she was married to a non-devotee, who turned out to be a rogue, meat eater, he drank alcohol, he was a woman-hunter, spending money on gambling, etc. So if we have in our husband only one of these things we would consider it as a catastrophe. She had all in one person. Not only was he a non-devotee, but he had many bad habits. So Pisima Mataji came to Srila Prabhupada and asked what should she do in this situation? He advised her to do what she learned from her mother- to serve her husband, and to pray to Sri Krishna for the best interest of her husband. And not to argue with her husband. Actually a woman should never argue with a drunken man, because he can kill her.
And Srila Prabhupada told her: “Remember those Deities that we worshiped when we were children?” He said, “I have them here, I’ll give them to... You worship Them, Radha-Govinda, and you keep praying to Them, and They’ll help you.” He didn’t advise her to divorce her husband, or to complain to various women’s ministries about him, etc. Rather for material problem he gave a spiritual solution.
She did the way Srila Prabhupada advised her; she didn’t criticize her husband, she didn’t argue with him, but she did her prescribed duties, her stri-dharma with the idea to please Sri Krishna through her service to the husband. It is not a material thing to follow stri dharma, because as I said before, a woman who follows stri dharma properly, she makes direct spiritual advancement, as a brahmacari makes by serving his guru. When Krishna gets pleased, only He can change the husband. No wife can change her husband. Krishna was obviously pleased with Pisima mataji’s service, and her husband came to her after sometime, and begged her for forgiveness, admitting that he was so bad, and realizing what a good wife he has, a wife who always works in his best interest. He ended up worshiping her. That “This woman is serving me so faithfully, and serving the Deities so faithfully, and she wants nothing but the best for me, and she’s praying to Krishna for me.” He acknowledged that and changed all his ways.
That is the power of a woman who follows her prescribed duty, stri-dharma, in order to please Sri Krishna, and to make spiritual advancement.
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Reader Comments:
I am about to marry a
I am about to marry a Non-Devotee girl, so in this case what should be the attitude towards her means like how to think about the relation of her with me.
Hare Krishna, This article
Hare Krishna,
This article is flawed when we look at the comments received against it from different devotees. But One good thing is that it has invited some real good opinions which would serve in allaying the confsion on the subject matter.
Moreover I would like to add some more points against the article. In Mahabharat it has been stated "Dharmasaya tatvam nihitam guhayam, Mahajano yena gatah sah panthah." The ways of Dharma are quite subtle and many a times it depends on the context of the problem and corresponding example of Mahajanas in such situations. Moreover it has been stated in the article that as per Manu Samhita when a wife serves meat to her husband then she gets no sin as she is faithfully serving her husband, but simultaneously it is also written that six kind of people get equal amount of sin when dealing into this buisness namely - in killing the animal for meat,selling of meat, buying meat, cooking the meat, serving the meat and eating meat. So which injuction to follow? For this reason it has been stated that "dharmasaya tatvam nihitam guhayam" and we should interpret shastras very carefully and not rigidly.
The article is not flawed.
The article is not flawed. The negative comments are flawed.
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You ask who would get the karma for serving meat to a husband. Well if the wife was doing so on account of the will of the husband then only he gets the karma. But if she is doing it because she also wants to eat then she shares in it. She is not serving meat because she likes to but has to.
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In the case of serving meat in restaurants the waiter is doing it for his financial profit. Thus he shares in the karma.
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There are exceptions to every rule. In case of hardship when there is starvation one can even eat cow meat, or even human meat without any reaction.
Mahajano yena gata sapantha
Mahajano yena gata sapantha - yes, that is very correct. You can justify that serving meat to husband, wife may not get any karma, and somebody may justify otherwise. But laws of nature are very subtle. Therefore, we should follow instructions of Srila Prabhupada from his books (and not mimic his pure devotee sister).
Besides, I have another point to make. Why are most of us concerned just about the sinful karma involved? Why can't we see that even from very wordly point of view, it is so merciless to be a part of animal slaughter, so impure to be a part of gambling, so treacherous to be a part of intoxication and illicit sex. Do we have our dharma towards just one person? The husband? And what about our responsiblities towards others- DEVARSHI BHUTAPTRNAM PITRANAM?????????.......And utlimately, what about our dharma towards the Supreme Lord and guru? What about 4 requlative principles?
Yes, if absolutely no choice, one may serve meat. But one can't justify it. Srila Prabhupada said that in old times, Kshtriya kings used to kill wild animals for their training. But he never said that they didn't get the reaction for it.
So, best is to take shelter of guru and Srila Prabhupada's books, and act accordingly.
The sastric injunctions for
The sastric injunctions for "stri-dharma" are clearly explained to be meant for the circumstances wherein a chaste woman serves a chaste man, and never otherwise. Srila Prabhupada - and indeed, sastra itself - unequivocally states that a woman with a fallen husband MUST abandon him for her own sake. A husband who disrupts his wife's Krsna Consciousness in anyway - especially, but not only by violation of the four regulative principles - is indeed worthy of divorce, for the sake of the wife's happiness and devotion. This is not to say that every devotee woman married to an imperfect husband has no choice but to immediately plan divorce; however, when the situation is clearly not favourable to one's Krsna-consciousness, one MUST act accordingly, in the way that sastra instructs.
Did anyone happen to read
Did anyone happen to read this part of her text?
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"So there is so much we have to practice. (Of course as I said at the beginning that we assume that we are dealing with normal men not perverts or criminals. Nor should men take advantage of this because by so doing they would reap serious bad karma.)"
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For all those persons who got bent out of shape by this article they should re-read the first portion again:
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"We were asked a question: what if the wife is a devotee of Lord Krishna and her husband is a non- devotee (karmi)? If one partner is a devotee and the other one is not (yet), it is not a problem if the devotee wife knows what her duty is towards Krishna in this situation."
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The authoress is addressing a real life situation where a woman may discover KC and her husband is a karmi, not a fallen devotee or a former devotee but a karmi. It is not for established devotee couples.
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From the hot headed comments above the message we get is that if a woman becomes interested in KC and her husband doesn't follow suit within X amount of time (a week, month, 3 months??) she should just divorce him. How crazy is that?
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I recall a god-sister of mine who was born in an Indian family but whose husband was not a devotee and was not following the 4 regs. She asked Srila Prabhupada what she should do in that situation. He said "just do what your mother trained you to do--serve your husband."
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But after Srila Prabhupada left her god-sisters said "oh your husband is not a devotee, he is a demon, you should divorce him." They put so much peer pressure on her that finally she disobeyed Srila Prabhupada's direct instructions divorced her karmi husband and married a devotee.
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She told us that "to this day I regret disobeying Srila Prabhupada."
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Why would Srila Prabhupada tell his disciple to continue to serve her karmi husband? Because just as the author of this text stated:
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"If husband wants her to serve him meat, alcohol, sex, etc, she should serve him. She will not get any reaction for doing that (BG 18.47), because she is doing her dharma (stri dharma); she is following her husband’s instructions, which means she is following her duty."
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Evidently no one bothered to look up BG 18.47 where it says:
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"It is better to engage in one's own occupation, even though one may perform it imperfectly, than to accept another's occupation and perform it perfectly. >>Duties prescribed according to one's nature are never affected by sinful reactions.<<"
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Thus for for a wife to perform her prescribed duties there is no sinful reaction, just as for Arjuna as a Kshatriya to kill was his prescribed duty and he suffered no reactions.
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It looks like no one actually believes these words of Lord Krsna.
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What I see from the comments is a cultural war between those who have sincerely imbibed Krsna's Vedic culture versus those who still embrace modern Western secular anti-culture.
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It is not difficult to tell who are the shrieking feminists as well as those who didn't read the text carefully enough to see that the audience the text was aimed at is new devotee women who were karmis until recently married to husbands who are still karmis.
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From the negative tone of the comments it is clear that ISKCON is headed if not already in a shallow versus deep schism. By shallow I mean those who have skimmed through the subject versus those who have dived deep into it and are actually trying to live it.
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I certainly feel disturbed at the bashing this authoress got from the Western-centric readership and do no identify with the Americanized version of Krsna's Vedic culture that these comments represent. In fact I am repelled by them and what they represent.
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PS you should fix this comment section so that carriage returns show and then I wont have to use "/" to separate paragraphs.
Hare Krishna......, I
Hare Krishna......,
I think I am not right person to make judgment regarding above topic as I am not much into devotional but I strictly fallows that wife is something which you have to treat as your half soul (i mean your soulmate). Yes I hope if you read paragraph 2 it says clearly that when you will get marry with a girl that means it is her second life which clearly explains that you have to treat your wife as like child, where you have to teach her new things but good ones and give her same respect which you are seeking from her and also you have to respect her ideas and give her own choices.
I dont think my wife need to fallow all the above and do all the seva to like a slave. If i want her to do everything like above article than I also make sure that I never drink, eat meat and never do wrong things and do same kind of seva to her. yes, I always expected my wife should do pooja and pray to god for me but not pray to me and treat me as GOD, Because she is my wife Half of my soul.
I am sorry if I hurt any one with this message. I always respect my wife as i respect my mother. Becaouse in my view only wife can play role of our mother when we will be in critical situations. she understands our situation, she supports us,she cooks food to feed us and etc( so many things which I cannot explain). So I have small message to the poeple who read this please respect your wife that she will respect your views and Ideas. Than there wont be any separations in ones life and they lead their life very happily.
I started reading this
I started reading this article with great anticipation. Having been married for close to twenty years, I am well-familiar with the struggle of a Western woman to remain chaste to her husband while simultaneously striving with my own cultural conditioning. I was hoping to get some useful insights into the problems of marriage, although my husband is a very nice devotee.
However, as I read, I became more and more dismayed. The article is so obviously lacking in mature deliberation that I get the impression that the author is either very young and does not have experience of what she speaks, or else she is simply parroting what she has heard from somewhere else, but without realization.
The author confuses character flaws with sinfulness, and willful blindness with chastity.
If a husband is bad-tempered (Cyavana), poverty stricken (Sudama Vipra), ugly, foolish, indolent, handicapped (Dhrtarastra) etc., that is not cause for a woman to abandon him. But those are faults, not unredeemed sinfulness. It is a sacrifice to tolerate and serve such a husband, and it is stri-dharma to not detest such a husband, but to serve him. But that is not at all the same as serving someone whose behavior is inimical to the principles of devotional service, which the author seems to be advocating.
I agree with her assertion that if we can't learn to serve a husband, then how will we learn to serve Krishna, the most autocratic of all husbands? But we still have to remember that the husband is still therepresentative of Krishna, not Krishna Himself. As such, it is wrong to surrender ourselves blindly to a husband. Indeed, it is foolishness.
Nor does the author's thesis become more reasonable by making an allowance for abandoning a pervert or criminal. Really? We don't have to stay married to a pervert? But why not? As she put it, Krishna sends exactly what we need. What if He thinks we need to be married to a pervert?
I can't help but wonder, wouldn't it make a wife even more chaste if she stays married to her husband while he's doing time in prison? And if he were a pervert (and define "pervert," please), wouldn't she be protecting both him and society by chastely remaining the sole recipient of his perverted attentions?
Furthermore, if a husband is mentally ill, it is all the more reason to remain chaste. Only a demon would abandon a sick person to whom she has a duty. Mental illness may entail the need for the wife to take charge of the husband, if and until he heals, but that is not against the principle of chastity. Since it is considered unchaste to remarry in any case, she might as well stay married to the crazy or criminal husband. If he's rendered docile by medication, he'll be that much easier to serve, and if he's safely locked up, at least he'll have somebody to visit him and bring him prasadam, poor man.
Although the author advocates chastity, her notion of it is determined by herself first and foremost. She reserves to herself the right to decide if her husband is crazy or deviant, and therefore meriting her faithfulness, instead of simply accepting and serving him as he is. On what authority does a wife draw the line? If the husband is as good as God, then how can a wife decide when he stops being as good as God? What right has she to judge him mentally ill? Where does it say in sastra that the wife of a thief or a lunatic is free to leave him? How does she know if Krishna sent her husband, or if Maya-devi did? If her husband is the supreme authority in her life, who is there to consult if he appears to be NOT what the Lord has sent? Or is there a higher authority to whom she has recourse?
What Prabhupada said about the spiritual master holds true for husbands as well. We don't surrender our intelligence, we surrender with our intelligence. If she's a devotee, what is she doing with a non-devotee husband in the first place?!
To use Pisima Mataji's example as applicable for all women is shortsighted. It's a case of the veterinarian's apprentice, who hit every sick horse in the throat with a hammer after seeing it done in one isolated case. Pisima was not in danger of falling down due to her husband's bad association; she was trained from earliest childhood in both the principles of stri-dharma,and Vaisnavism. A weaker woman would almost certainly succumb to her husband's bad influence. If we have Pisima's devotion and spiritual strength, maybe then we can imitate her chastity. Otherwise, it's risky. The first principle is to save yourself.
The issue is not whether a husband is a devotee, it's whether one's husband or wife is an impediment to one's Krishna consciousness. The potential for abusing that principle as grounds for a frivolous divorce is certainly inherent, but Prabhupada makes quite clear what constitutes proper grounds for separation. The author seems to have overlooked this.
If marriage is sufficient for the spiritual advancement of women, then why did Srila Prabhupadastop performing marriages when his disciples did not follow their marriage vows properly, but CONTINUE giving initiation to both men and women (including diksa), knowing that they might not strictly follow those vows? It's clear that the guru-disciple relationship was of greater importance in his eyes than the husband-wife relationship. Diksa is eternal, marriage is not.
Finally, it is not appropriate for the author to instruct other women in this regard. Whether to leave a spouse is a matter to be settled between guru and disciple and the spouse, and is nobody else's affair. The rules of stri-dharma are primarily for ordinary women. Prabhupada said that his followers are NOT ordinary women. Of course, their level of extraordinariness depends on the degree to which they have surrendered to guru and Krishna, but that is not easily judged by the casual observer. If the author wants to stay chaste to a fallen husband, that is her privilege, but there is no need to get others to join her in her mistaken beliefs in order to justify it. Personally, I'd give her words more credibility if she could illustrate how SHE is practicing stri-dharma, rather than dictating to others in such an abstract manner. It would certainly be more interesting to read than this article.
Why attempt to muddy waters that are very clear? It's less than honest for ISKCON News to post this article and then slap a disclaimer on it, saying that the author doesn't necessarily represent the views of ISKCON. Isn't that what this site is for, to present the views of Prabhupada's movement?
It is obvious from the
It is obvious from the diversity of comments presented here that ISKCON devotees are not so clear about the issue as you claim, so therefore we found it to be relevant to open a discussion about this topic on this forum. ISKCON News is working on getting the input from ISKCON`s Grihastha Vision Team, which would, hopefully, provide our readers with more clarity on the issue.
Your servant;
Krishna-lila Dasi / Krisztina Danka, PhD.
ISKCON News Managing Editor
I think this is very clear.
I think this is very clear. Why the confusion? As the sastra says, women have certain duties and so do men. Duties of a women was described above similarly there are duties a man is supposed to follow. A man who does not perform his duties may be rejected by the women but NOT for another man. Like Ajit Krishna Prabhu pointed out, that's called prostitution. We must not think maya affects others and we are aloof. Maya will trick you to think you are great the world is the problem. Look within. Be honest. Be real. Krishna Consciousness is not a part time hobby. It's the sole purpose of human life. Everything falls in place when we remember Krishna is the center and we are only made to serve him. Accepting new age thoughts does not make us mature. Rejecting sastras makes us very immature.
Hari Bol! I am now seriously
Hari Bol! I am now seriously thinking of blooping and becoming a non-devotee husband. Then I will have everything coming to me on a platter- a compliant wife who will cater to my every whim and fancy! Wow! Sex on demand, alcohol on demand, meat on demand and maybe even some fun on the side because I can now wave this article in her face and tell her it is her "stri dharma," she's got to serve me no matter what and look the other way no matter what!
Yes, of course I am being supersarcastic but what kind of drivel is being expounded in this article? EVERY marriage HAS to have a common ground where discussions take place, decisions are made by mutual consent and cooperation, mutual RESPECT and trust is there...and not simply on BLIND FOLLOWING.
Srila Prabhupada said that "Blind following is to be condemned." It is hoped that this article is merely the product of some well-intentioned but immature young person's earnest desire to see that women appreciate their service as wives and mothers as very important and crucial for the wellbeing of their spouse and children. Other than that this kind of black or white thinking is highly misleading, potentially dangerous and totally misguided.
And what about the non-devotee husband? No rules for him, huh? He gets away with murder [literally, meat-eating I mean]all in the name of "service" from the wife?
I do believe that some senior devotees who are mature, thoughtful, and experienced in Grihasta life can shed some light on this issue. Otherwise, young people entering marriage will think that women must "serve" their husbands no matter what the husband does and this sets her up for abuse, and who knows what else?
As it is marriages in ISKCON have had to face so many things and now this kind of thinking will set us back another 40 years. Young ladies out there, PLEASE make sure you speak to senior Vaisnavees in grihasta asrama who are in happy, stable, healthy, VERY KRISHNA CONSCIOUS marriages AND REALLY understand WHAT IS SERVICE AND WHAT IS NOT SERVICE.
Thank you very much. Hare Krishna!
Getting rid of my karmi
Getting rid of my karmi husband was the best thing I ever did to help myself to advance in Krishna Consciousness. I had to choose between my karmi husband and Krishna Consciousness and I made the right choice!!!!
Hare Krishna PAMHO, OGTSP I
Hare Krishna
PAMHO, OGTSP
I do not know mother Sundari Radhika Dasi but I can assume she is not paid to advocate this article and there is no point shooting the messenger. Shatric injunction is shastric injunction. Mother Sundari Radhika Dasi is not maknig it up through her mental speculations. Krishna consciousness and Vedic life style is not a feel good sentimental philosophy that can be changed because we do not feel good about it. We can scream and shout to express our disliking as much as we want but that will not change the Shatric injunction. All the mother and sister out there who do not like this Shatric injunction, please ignore it and you do not have to follow it. This is for those who wants to know about the Shatric injunction of stri dhrma. Neither mother Sundari Radhika Dasi is promoting this as her personal agenda.
Neither I am endorsing this message nor am I protesting against it. All I am saying it is what it is. If you do not like it then leave it. If ou have question go to your spiritual master and he will explain to you what you should do in a situation like this.
Haribol.
I don't understand where all
I don't understand where all these misconceptions comes from? Here are some instructions from Prabhupada:
From Caitanya Caritamrta:
"Inform my daughter Sathi to abandon her relationship with her husband because he has fallen down. When the husband falls down, it is the wife's duty to relinquish the relationship.
From the purport:
As far as Sathi, the daughter of Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, was concerned, she was advised to give up her relationship with her husband. Concerning this, Srimad-Bhagavatam (5.5.18) states, na patis ca sa syan na mocayed yah samupeta-mrtyum: "One cannot be a husband if he cannot liberate his dependents from inevitable death." If a person is not in Krsna consciousness and is bereft of spiritual power, he cannot protect his wife from the path of repeated birth and death. Consequently such a person cannot be accepted as a husband. A wife should dedicate her life and everything to Krsna for further advancement in Krsna consciousness. If her husband abandons Krsna consciousness and she gives up her connection with him, she follows in the footsteps of the dvija-patnis, the wives of the brahmanas who were engaged in performing sacrifices. The wife is not to be condemned for cutting off such a relationship.
Next verse from CC:
"‘When a husband is fallen, one's relationship with him must be given up.'"
PURPORT
This is a quotation from the smrti-sastra. As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam (7.11.28):
santustalolupa daksa dharma-jna priya-satya-vak
apramatta sucih snigdha patim tv apatitam bhajet
"A wife who is satisfied, who is not greedy, who is expert and knows religious principles, who speaks what is dear and truthful and is not bewildered, and who is always clean and affectionate should be very much devoted to her husband if he is not fallen."
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Madhya 15.264
We had an interesting discussion about Sundari Radhika's article. You can read it here:
http://nimaipandit.ning.com/profiles/blogs/matajis-when...
I totally agree with the
I totally agree with the article, we should accept our karma as it is, and still worship the lord,HOW CAN WE EVER SURRENDER, TO KRISHNA, IF WE JUST LEAVE OUR HUSBAND BECAUSE, HE IS NOT A DEVOTEE? Is a sacrifice, and thats what krishna gave to us, before there wasent divorces, all of this started int he west, were women, want to be called "prabhus", and wear the pants, and be all equal, yeah krishna gave us different bodies, and we need to accept that. Vrinda devi, Got marry to jhalandar, a demon, and she was SO chase to him, that lord vishnu, was so impress to her, No matter who your marry with, you have to be tolarent and know that is all krishna's mercy.
What kind of surrender are
What kind of surrender are you talking about? Where did Krishna advice to serve demons? What if the husband asks to kill cows and cook her flesh, or even more henious acts? And a husband who is not a devotee is not JUST a small thing. He is duty bound to guide the wife on path back home back to Godhead. There are no free meals. If wife is supposed to serve unconditionally, then simultaneously, I repeat, SIMULTANEOUSLY, husband is suppposed to deliver her, and give her all protection and guidance. And speaking about Vrinda devi, well, that time, and even today, many women have no choice. But then what will you say of Mira bai, who defied her husband? By your standards, what is her level?
All these controversies can be easily solved if we just remember one simple thing which Srila Prabhpada always demonstrated - That for the sake of a higher principle, a lower principle can be sacrificed. And in scriptures, even the Lord speaks of religious principles of different levels. If we don't understand which level is the highest, we should take shelter of mahajans - the pure devotees like Srila Prabhupada and our Guru Maharaja and other senior Vaisnavas, rather than writing such an article lacking facts, understanding and even common sense.
We can - and in fact we MUST
We can - and in fact we MUST (see Srila Prabhupada / VedaBase citations kindly posted by Ajit Krishna Dasa) - leave "fallen" husbands to protect our own Krsna-consciousness as well as theirs. Think of all the sinful and offensive reactions they will accumulate, for example, just by continuing their sinful activities (especially meat-eating, intoxicants, illicit sex, gambling) in front of Deities or images of Krsna, or (even worse) by neglecting Vaisnava etiquette and committing Vaisnava-aparadha? How much more difficult will it be to raise Krsna-conscious children, which is the whole purpose of procreation?
When the husband (or wife) is not Krsna-conscious, the whole family suffers!
Therefore SRI CAITANYA CARITAMRTA () strictly instructs:
"'When a husband is fallen, one's relationship with him must be given up.'
DO NOT misuse sastra to promote misconceptions. Vrinda devi was specifically to "marry" Jalandhar due to a CURSE and a specific LILA of the Lord - this was known and well-established before Her descent from the spiritual world. All of this is given in sastra. This is not the usual case - none of us are in such a situation, so we must not misuse this example and try to imitate. See what sastra and Srila Prabhupada have to say first. They are the ultimate authority.
What you have spoken is the
What you have spoken is the truth, Bhaktin S! One of the fundamentals in Krishna Conscious ABC is not to associate with materialists - asat-sanga. Could you imagine to live with a non-devotee spouse for 25+ years and serve him meat, have sex with him etc? Imagine what this will mean for your KC when you have to leave your body. I don't know how these misconceptions are possible, and I'm glad you can see the obvious truth :)
Haribol, PAMHO. AGTSP. As a
Haribol,
PAMHO. AGTSP.
As a soul in a woman's body, I completely diagree with the above article. I am actually aghast!Women have to be respected and not treated like a doormat just because it is her "dharma" to accept a doormat situation. Please consider the following questions that I pose and contemplate on the answers (I am not looking for any responses from you- just introspection)
1. If I am to serve my husband meat, intoxication, sex, etc. I am no different from a prostitute myself as she also supplies men with similar items.
2. If I am to serve my husband meat, intoxication, sex, etc.how can I even think of keeping Deities at home? Do you really think that I could be preparing the Lord's bhoga while I am cooking flesh next to it? Spiritual development is not only about not accumulating karma BUT also about actual advancement which cannot be possinle if a wife keeps on doing such deeds.
3. If I am to serve my husband meat, intoxication, sex, etc., what impact will this have on my own kids? Am I not nurturing demons myself since they would like to follow what is being done at home? Am I not building ill karmic reactions in this case by misguiding my own kids. And what about the karma being accumulated as a result of my agreeing to cook flesh and killing innocent animals?
4. As a mother, if your own child begs you to give him/her intoxicating drugs, will you do so? As a mother it is your duty to look after your child and cater to his/her needs BUT you make sure that you give him/her things that are beneficial and not detrimental. If your duty as a mother necessitates you being selective with your children, the same ideology should be followed with your husband. You give him things that are conducive for his physical and spiritual health and not damaging things just because he asks you for them.
Finally, please remember that we are all spirit souls and there is only one purusha and that is Krishna.HE is our eternal husband. If a fallen husband thinks that a wife should worship him like Krishna- tough luck! Just as a husband is accepted as a guru by his wife, the vice versa is also true- the wife also functions as his guru as long as both have Krishna in the center.
Hope this helps. Thanks.
Hare Krishna! Pamho,
Hare Krishna! Pamho, agtSP!
I was shocked to read the above!To any woman seriously interesting in getting the full benefit of Krishna Consciousness, please read the follow carefully:
Srila Prabhupada: "In Bhagavad-gita, however, the Lord says, na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah: [Bg. 7.15] "Those miscreants who do not surrender unto Me are the lowest of mankind." The word naradhama means "nondevotee." Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu also said, yei bhaje sei bada, abhakta-hina [Cc. Antya 4.67], chara. Anyone who is a devotee is sinless. One who is not a devotee, however, is the most fallen and condemned. It is recommended, therefore, that a chaste wife not associate with a fallen husband. A fallen husband is one who is addicted to the four principles of sinful activity -- namely illicit sex, meat-eating, gambling and intoxication. Specifically, if one is not a soul surrendered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is understood to be contaminated. Thus a chaste woman is advised not to agree to serve such a husband. It is not that a chaste woman should be like a slave while her husband is naradhama, the lowest of men. Although the duties of a woman are different from those of a man, a chaste woman is not meant to serve a fallen husband. If her husband is fallen, it is recommended that she give up his association. Giving up the association of her husband does not mean, however, that a woman should marry again and thus indulge in prostitution. If a chaste woman unfortunately marries a husband who is fallen, she should live separately from him. Similarly, a husband can separate himself from a woman who is not chaste according to the description of the sastra. The conclusion is that a husband should be a pure Vaisnava and that a woman should be a chaste wife with all the symptoms described in this regard. Then both of them will be happy and make spiritual progress in Krsna consciousness."
>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.11.28